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Hello and welcome. I'm your host, Kapri. Have you ever found yourself repeating the same patterns in your life, even when you swore things would be different this time? Maybe it's picking the same type of incompatible partner over and over, or always feeling a certain insecurity, no matter how much you achieve. Why do we do that? What if I told you there's a therapeutic approach that zeroes in on those deep, stubborn patterns and helps you break free? Today we're talking about schema therapy. It's a fascinating blend of psychology that might just explain why we get stuck in ruts and, more importantly, how we can change those lifelong patterns.

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In this episode we'll introduce you to the concept of schema therapy in an easy-to-follow way. We'll cover what schema therapy actually is and how it builds on more familiar therapies like cognitive behavioral therapy. We'll talk about what schemas are, especially those pesky early maladaptive schemas from childhood, and how they affect our feelings, behavior and relationships, and how they affect our feelings, behavior and relationships. We'll also dig into core emotional needs we all have them and how unmet needs when we were kids can lead to problems later on. And, of course, we'll give some relatable examples of common schemas and the coping styles people use to deal with them, whether they surrender to them, avoid them or overcompensate.

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We'll explore why these schemas are so persistent, why do they stick around so stubbornly, and we'll take a peek at how schema therapy works in practice, including something called limited reparenting, which I promise I'll explain, as well as the experiential and cognitive techniques that therapists might use. Whether you're completely new to self-help in psychology or you've dabbled in self-help before, don't worry, we're going to keep it down to earth in today's conversation and hopefully by the end you'll have a good grasp of schema therapy and maybe even some personal insights to reflect on or to use if you are seeking professional help or self-care. So grab a coffee or your favorite drink and get comfy, and let's get ready to dive in more in a minute.

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Kapri: 3:48

So first things first what exactly is schema therapy? You might have heard of cognitive behavioral therapy or CBT, which is a popular form of therapy that focuses on thoughts and behaviors. Schema therapy actually grew out of CBT. It was developed in the 90s by a psychologist, dr Jeffrey Young, as a way to help people who weren't fully improving with standard CBT, especially those dealing with long-term, deep-rooted issues like personality disorders or chronic depression. So schema therapy kept the effective structure parts of CBT, but it also added some powerful new elements. To go deeper, in fact, it's what we call an integrative therapy, meaning it blends ideas and techniques from several therapeutic approaches. Think of schema therapy as a kind of best of all worlds approach. It integrates the cognitive and behavioral strategies of CBT with insights from attachment therapy, which looks at how our early relationships shape us, elements of gestalt therapy, which can be very experiential and emotion-focused, and even some psychodynamic ideas, the ones that delve into childhood experiences and unconscious patterns. By combining all of these, schema therapy aims to tackle problems at a deeper level than cognitive behavioral therapy alone typically does so. Unlike traditional CBT, which often targets surface level thoughts such as I had a bad day at work and I'm thinking negatively, schema therapy goes underneath, to address the core themes that keep popping up through a person's life. For many people, it's not enough to challenge a thought in the moment. They might have longstanding emotional wounds from childhood that kept generating new negative thoughts and behaviors. Schema therapy was designed to heal those early wounds and unmet needs so that the person can finally break out of destructive patterns. So, in simple terms, schema therapy is about identifying the deep patterns or schemas that started early in our lives and continue to affect us, and then using a mix of techniques so this could be cognitive, emotional and relational to change those schemas your basement rather than just mopping up the water every week. By addressing the root causes, the early experiences and unmet needs, schema therapy helps people create more lasting change in their thinking, feeling and relationships. So that's schema therapy in a nutshell.

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Now I'll mention schemas throughout our conversation today. It's a pretty important word, so we're going to unpack what a schema is, especially the early maladaptive schemas that schema therapy focuses on. In everyday terms, a schema is like a mental blueprint or a theme. Think of it as a filter in your mind that helps you organize information. We all have schemas that help us navigate the world, like a schema for how a typical day at work goes or a schema for what a friendship is. That sounds pretty neutral, right, but in schema therapy, when we say schema we actually mean an early maladaptive schema, which is basically a deeply ingrained negative pattern or belief that we picked up in childhood or adolescence and then carried into adulthood.

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An early maladaptive schema is self-defeating in nature. It's a pattern that causes us pain and problems, yet it's something we keep replaying. It might be a belief about ourselves or the world that formed when we were very young, often as a way to make sense of something that was hurtful or missing in our early environment. These schemas are not just thoughts. They're woven out of memories, emotions and even bodily sensations from those early experiences. Over time they solidify into a sort of life theme. For example, a child who was abandoned or consistently feared abandonment might develop a schema like people I love will always leave me feared abandonment might develop a schema like people I love will always leave me. A child who was harshly criticized or abused might form a schema like I'm not worthy of love or I'm always going to get hurt by others. These are broad, sweeping beliefs, almost like life mottos, but negative ones that undermine us. Now where do these schemas come from? Usually from early experiences where our core emotional needs weren't met.

Kapri: 8:13

As children, we all have some basic emotional needs. We need safety and security, like knowing that our caregiver will protect us and be there for us. We need love, attention and connection, feeling cared for and understood. We also need autonomy and a sense of competence, being allowed to explore, to learn and to feel capable. We need the freedom to express our emotions and needs within healthy limits and to be playful and spontaneous, and we need realistic limits like guidance and discipline, to feel grounded and learn self-control. These are often summarized as core needs like connection, safety, autonomy, self-expression, spontaneity and healthy limits. If these needs are satisfied reasonably well, we tend to develop in a healthy way.

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But if one or more of these needs is chronically unmet, that's a breeding ground for maladaptive schemas. Imagine a child who doesn't get those needs met. Say, a little person grows up with parents who are emotionally distant or unpredictable. They don't feel safe or nurtured. One of those core needs is lacking. As a result, they might develop a schema of abandonment or instability, a pervasive feeling that people who matter won't be there when they need them. Or consider another child who is constantly criticized and told he's not good enough. His need for acceptance and validation is unmet and he might develop a schema of defectiveness or shame, basically a deep belief that there is something wrong with me or I'm unlovable. These are just two examples, but there are many such schemas that can form. In fact, schema therapy identifies 18 common early maladaptive schemas with names like abandonment, mistrust, abuse, failure, social isolation, emotional deprivation and so on.

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Often these schemas are a child's way of coping or understanding the world when something goes wrong. Kids are egocentric, meaning they naturally think everything is about them. So if a child's needs aren't met, they tend to blame themselves or come up with a belief to explain it. Mommy is always angry, so maybe I am bad. There's a seed of a defectiveness schema. Or dad left us. It must be that people I love will leave me a seed of an abandonment schema. Be that people I love will leave me a seed of an abandonment schema.

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These interpretations get locked in emotionally, especially if the painful experiences repeat. By the time we grow up, the schema has become a familiar story in our minds, even if it's a painful one. It's important to note that not every difficult childhood event will create a schema. It depends on many factors, including the child's temperament and whether there were other positive influences. But when negative experiences are repeated or overwhelming and our needs constantly aren't met, we adapt by forming these schemas. Think of a schema as a scar. It formed to protect you or make sense of hurt, but it lingers long after the wound occurred. Now that we know what schemas are and how they originate, let's talk about how the early schemas play out in our adult lives. Just because they started in childhood doesn't mean they stay quiet in childhood. Oh no, they love to follow us into our relationships, our jobs and even how we feel about ourselves every day, more in a minute.

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The Reframing the Membrane Crossing Boundaries podcast is provided solely for informational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended to replace professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis or treatment, nor does it substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health clinician. Always consult your physician before deciding about your physical or mental health.

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So what happens when you grow up and you're still carrying one of those early maladaptive schemas inside you? In adulthood? Schemas act like a pair of colored glasses. They tint the way you see the world. When a situation activates a schema, it's like hitting a psychological nerve that was already sensitive. You might suddenly feel intense emotions that seem to come out of nowhere, or you might find yourself reacting in ways that later make you scratch your head and think why did I do that? Let's take an example.

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Suppose Ash has an abandonment schema from their childhood. Maybe one of their parents left when they were young. As an adult, when Ash enters a relationship, that schema is lurking in the background. Now, if their partner simply has to work late one night or doesn't reply to a text for a few hours, ash's schema might get activated. They might suddenly feel a wave of panic or sadness out of proportion to the situation. It's that old fear that they're going to leave me. In schema therapy terms. Ash has an emotional button that's been pushed. Their heart races. They feel abandoned and desperate, maybe even angry or ashamed for feeling so needy. This is the schema flaring up in the present. To their partner it might seem like an overreaction, but to Ash it feels 100% real and overwhelming. It's as if the old wound of abandonment is open again in that moment.

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Schemas can affect almost any aspect of life. They especially love to appear in our relationships so romantic friendships, even work relationships because those often mirror dynamics from our early years. If you have a mistrust or abuse schema, you might constantly suspect people's motives or find it extremely hard to get close to anyone, always waiting for betrayal. If you have a defectiveness schema, the I am flawed, or bad belief, you might feel insecure and unworthy around others, perhaps avoiding intimacy because you know what? If someone really gets to know you, they'll dislike or reject you. Or you might seek out partners who criticize you, basically confirming your schema, because unfortunately, we often gravitate toward what feels familiar, even if it hurts. Someone with a social isolation schema might feel like they just don't belong anywhere, leading them to withdraw and isolate, which then reinforces the feeling of being an outsider. And it's not just relationships. Schemas can influence your career and achievements too.

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Imagine a person with a failure schema, a belief that I will fail in everything I do. Even if this person is capable, they might sabotage opportunities or shy away from challenges at work out of a fear of failure, thereby never reaching their potential, which then confirms to them that they're a failure, or consider someone with an unrelenting standard schema, a belief that they must be perfect and meet impossibly high standards at all times. This person might be a perfectionist, pushing themselves to the brink and eventually burning out, or feeling chronically stressed. Coworkers might admire their dedication, but internally the person never feels good enough because only 100% perfection meets the schema's demand. Essentially, these schemas act like scripts in the background of our minds. When a relevant situation arises, we often play out the script automatically.

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The emotions can be very strong, like ashes, panic or deep shame or intense anger, because they're tied to old, powerful memories, and the behaviors that come out whether it's clinging to a partner, avoiding confrontation or working yourself to death often end up maintaining the schema's hold on you. Here's the really tricky part Schemas tend to become self-fulfilling prophecies. We might unintentionally behave in ways that make that feared outcome more likely, thus reinforcing the schema. For example, someone with an abandonment schema like Ash might become so anxious and clingy with their partner, calling them constantly, needing repeated reassurance, that the partner feels smothered and pulls back, possibly even leaves the relationship. This, of course, confirms Ash's worst fear. See, everyone leaves me, in that case, the schema kind of guided behavior, their intense neediness that helped bring about the very result they dreaded. Another person with the same schema might do the opposite push their partner away first or test them harshly to see if they really care, which also strains the relationship. Either way, the outcome ends up the same the schema is reinforced. It's a vicious cycle.

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The schema gets activated, leads to strong feelings and usually some maladaptive reaction, and that reaction often produces consequences that feed right back into the schema's core belief. Living under the influence of a strong schema can be really painful. It can cause chronic anxiety, depression or anger. Over years, these patterns can even contribute to mental health disorders. In fact, research and clinical observations show that persistent schemas can lead to ongoing problems like depression, anxiety and personality disorders, because they create a cycle of negative thoughts and behaviors that is hard to escape without help. It's like being stuck on a merry-go-round and not knowing how to jump off. So if you're thinking, yep, I've got a few of those patterns myself, you're definitely not alone.

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The next logical question is how do we usually cope with these schemas? Once we have them, people actually cope in pretty predictable ways. Schema therapy points out three main coping styles and chances are you'll recognize at least one of them in yourself. When a schema gets activated and those uncomfortable feelings surge up, we instinctively try to cope with them. In schema therapy we talk about three basic coping styles that people use in dealing with a schema Surrender, avoidance and overcompensation. Don't worry about the jargon, these are actually intuitive once you get the idea. So let's break it down one by one, and we'll use a concrete example or two to make it clear.

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Surrender this means giving in to the schema and behaving as if it's true. It's like the schema is the boss and you just go along with what it says about you or others. For instance, if you have a defectiveness schema I am unlovable, I'm unbroken and you're in surrender mode, you might tolerate a lot of bad treatment from others because deep down you feel you deserve it. You surrender to that feeling of worthlessness. An example is someone who stays in an emotionally abusive relationship, not asserting themselves, basically confirming the schema's message that this is all I am worth. In the case of an abandonment schema, surrender might look like clinking to whoever is close out of fear, or repeatedly choosing partners who are unstable or dismissive, essentially playing out the abandonment over and over because it feels inevitable. Surrendering is a passive stance. The person doesn't fight the schema. They accept the pain as just the way of life.

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The next one is avoidance, and this style is all about escaping or avoiding anything that might activate the schema. If your schema is never activated, then you won't feel that pain. That's the often unconscious logic here. Using the examples, someone with an abandonment schema might avoid serious relationships altogether. If I don't get close to anyone, I won't be hurt. That's the thinking. They might keep people at arm's length or in relationships at the first sign of difficulty.

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A person with a defectiveness schema might avoid situations where they fear their flaws will be exposed. Maybe they shy away from social gatherings, avoid intimacy or even use substances, food or distractions to numb the feelings when the schema is activated. Another common avoidance tactic is emotional withdrawal, like shutting down emotionally or refusing to think about certain memories or topics because those might bring up the schema. Avoidance can give short-term relief. You don't confront the fear in the moment, but of course it limits your life and keeps you from challenging the schema. If you always avoid trust and closeness, you never get the chance to disconfirm that people can be loyal and loving. Then there's overcompensation. This is the fight response. You fight back against the schema by doing the extreme opposite of what it suggests. On the surface this sounds more positive, but it can get pretty tricky pretty quickly.

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Overcompensation often means overcorrecting in a way that can be maladaptive. For example, someone with an underlying defectiveness schema might swing to the opposite and act as if they are superior or perfect. To cover their deep feelings of inferiority, they might brag, show off or become ultra-competitive, trying to be superhuman so that no one can ever point out a flaw. Internally they still feel defective, but they hide it behind a mask of perfection or arrogance. In the case of an abandonment schema, an overcompensator might push others away first to avoid any dependency. Picture someone who says I don't need anybody, I'm a rock, I'm an island. They might date multiple people and keep it very casual, or become overly independent and refuse help, all to avoid ever feeling dependent or abandoned. Another overcompensation might be trying to control or test partners. I'll make them prove they won't leave constantly, which ironically can strain relationships. Overcompensation is basically a way of saying I'll show that schema is wrong by going to the opposite extreme. But because it's extreme and not a balanced, genuine behavior. It doesn't truly heal the schema. In fact, all three of these coping styles surrender, avoidance and overcompensation usually end up reinforcing the schema in the long run.

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All right, so to sum this up and cement this, let's briefly revisit our characters. Ash, with their abandonment schema. We can see that if they surrender, they become clingy and anxious. If they avoid, they distant themselves or leave relationships early. And if they overcompensate, they might pretend not to care or even provoke a breakup on their own terms. All roads sadly lead back to feeling abandoned. Likewise, for someone with a defectiveness schema, surrendering might mean accepting blame or criticism all the time. Avoidance might look like hiding your true self and avoiding close connections. And overcompensation might mean striving to be perfect and never admitting any weakness. Different behaviors, same underlying pain.

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Most of us use a mix of these coping styles in different situations, or we might lean heavily on one. None of them actually resolve the schema, they just manage it, and often poorly. Recognizing your go-to coping style can be a big eye-opener. You might realize oh, oh, that's why I always do x when I start feeling y. Schema therapy helps people see these patterns clearly and then gradually shift to healthier coping.

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Now you might be wondering if these schemas and their coping behaviors are so entrenched, why are they so hard to change? Why can't we just snap out of it once we notice it? And that's a great question. Understanding the stubborn nature of schemas is key to appreciating why schema therapy can be so useful. If a schema is basically a false or unhealthy belief, why don't we just update it like we update an old software program? Well, the short answer is that schemas are sneaky, they're deep and they're self-perpetuating. They're hard to change for several reasons. First, remember that schemas usually form very early in life. They've been with us for a long time, often since childhood or adolescence. By the time we reach adulthood, a schema has had years and years to reinforce itself. It becomes part of how we automatically think and feel. Schemas are extremely stable and enduring themes that we carry with us and build upon throughout life.

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We tend to notice information that confirms our schemas and discount information that contradicts them. It's a bit like having a built-in confirmation bias. If you deeply believe I'm unlovable, you might dismiss compliments or love you receive. They're just being nice. Oh, that doesn't count. Yet you'll dwell on any slight or criticism as proof that your belief is true. Over years, you collect a mountain of evidence in your mind supporting the schema and any evidence to the contrary slides off like Teflon.

Kapri: 26:01

Now we just discussed the coping styles we often use to keep these schemas intact. If you avoid anything that challenges your schema, how will you ever learn a different belief? If you surrender to it, you're living it out without protest. If you overcompensate, you might achieve temporary wins, that is, feeling in control or superior, but you're not really healing the wound, you're covering it up. Many times our coping behaviors actually lead to outcomes that reinforce the schema. So the example I gave of someone within abandonment fear, acting in ways that push others away, thus ending up abandoned, and quote, proving the schema right. Or think of someone with a mistrust schema who trusts no one. They may end up alone and without support, which tends to confirm that people aren't there for you. Support which tends to confirm that people aren't there for you. This self-fulfilling prophecy nature of schemas makes them very sticky.

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Another reason schemas persist is that, ironically, they can become part of our comfort zone. Now, comfort is a strange word because schemas usually cause discomfort. Right, but it's a familiar discomfort. It's the devil. We know If you felt worthless or anxious or angry for most of your life. Feeling genuinely happy or trusting can actually be scary because it's unfamiliar.

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People sometimes unconsciously sabotage positive changes because a part of them is accustomed to the old narrative. There's a sense of this is just who I am. The schema feels like it's part of your identity. Letting it go can be as frightening as losing a piece of yourself or stepping into a whole new world without your usual defenses. Additionally, schemas are often tied to strong emotions and memories. Just thinking your way out of them, like telling yourself I know not everyone will abandon me, might not work when your emotional brain is convinced otherwise. Under stress or when an activator hits, the emotional memory can overwhelm the rational thoughts. This is why purely cognitive approaches sometimes fall short. You might logically understand that a relief is false, but still feel it to be true deep down. So all of these factors long-term reinforcement, self-fulfilling, coping, comfort zone, familiarity and emotional weight make early maladaptive schemas very persistent.

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They don't usually change just with insight or time. It often takes a concerted effort, usually in therapy, to restructure these schemas. In fact, people often need a corrective experience to override those old patterns. This is where schema therapy comes in with its toolkit. So let's talk about that for a bit. How does schema therapy actually help someone change a schema and what does it look like in practice? The good news is, even though schemas are tough, they can be changed with professional help.

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Schema therapy offers a really comprehensive approach to healing these deep patterns. It's not a quick fix, but it is a powerful process. So let's look at what typically happens in a therapeutic environment and some of the kind of techniques that are used. One is identifying your schema. So first a therapist would help you identify any specific schemas. This might involve questionnaires, guided reflection or just talking through life history and recurring difficulties. Lot of times just putting a name to your schema can be relieving like oh so I have an abandonment schema and a failure schema. That's why these things keep coming up. It gives you a framework to understand your struggles in a non-judgmental way. You realize it's not just you being irrational, it's a schema that formed for a reason. So building a supportive therapeutic relationship is a great tool for healing. Remember those unmet core emotional needs. The therapy setting becomes a place to start meeting those needs in a safe way.

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The therapist does something in schema therapy, often called limited reparenting. Now that doesn't mean that the therapist actually becomes your parent and it has to stay within healthy professional boundaries. But the idea is that the therapist takes on a kind of supportive, caring role, much like a good parent or caregiver would. They provide warmth, empathy and validation, and they also provide guidance and set limits when needed Basically, a healthy parental figure. If you've been craving acceptance your whole life, the therapist is consistently accepting of you. If you never had anyone stand up for you, the therapist might be very protective of your well-being. Over time, this reparenting experience can start to fill some of the void from childhood. It's considered limited because it happens only within sessions and within appropriate limits, but it's incredibly healing. Clients often say they feel like for the first time someone is giving them the unconditional support they always needed. Researchers found that this aspect the strong bond and corrective emotional experience is a big factor in schema therapy's effectiveness.

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Schema therapy isn't just about talking about your childhood in a detached way. It often involves experiential exercises to emotionally process those memories. One powerful technique is called imagery re-scripting. The therapist might guide you into a visualization of a painful childhood memory. For instance, you might picture your six-year-old self crying alone in your room after being yelled at. Then the therapist helps you rewrite the script of that memory. Maybe your adult self or the therapist in the imagery enters the scene, comforts the child and tells off the adult who was hurting you, ensuring the child is safe. This might sound a bit odd but it can be very powerful emotionally. Clients often feel a huge release or a sense of resolution when their inner child receives the care and protection they never got back. Then it's like giving your brain a new experience to associate with that old herd, which helps diminish the schema's intensity.

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Another experiential method is the empty chair technique brought from just-taught therapy. Here you might have an imagined dialogue between parts of yourself. For example, you put your schema or maybe an internalized critical parent voice in one chair and you or another part, like your healthy adult side, sit in another. Then you have it out. Maybe you as the healthy part, tell your critical voice why you're not going to believe I'm worthless anymore, or you stand up for the hurt child part of you. It sounds role play-ish, but doing this in a guided way with a supportive therapist can lead to breakthroughs. Suddenly you realize wait, I don't actually agree with that cruel voice anymore.

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These experiential exercises help to link new positive emotional experiences to those old schemas, which is essential for deep change. Of course, schema therapy also uses a lot of classic cognitive strategies, much like CBT does. This means you and the therapist will identify the specific beliefs that make up your schema Say the belief that I'm unlovable or I always will be abandoned and then you'll challenge and test those beliefs. You might examine evidence for and against them, come up with healthier thoughts to replace them and slowly work on internalizing a new belief. For example, I am worthy of love and I can find people who will stay with me. Therapists might give homework, like journaling whenever a schema is activated and writing down a more balanced response, or reading flashcards or affirmations to yourself that remind you of your new, healthy beliefs when you feel the old schema is firing up. The cognitive piece is important because it helps restructure the intellectual understanding of things. You learn to spot the distortions caused by the schema and correct them over time. However, cognitive techniques alone aren't enough for schemas, since the emotional side is so strong, which is why they're combined with the experiential and relational methods.

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Finally, schema therapy also looks at changing behaviors that stem from schemas. This is sometimes called pattern breaking. It's a kind of ultimate goal to start doing things differently in real life, not just in your head or heart. If you always withdraw when you feel criticized, perhaps due to a defectiveness schema, the therapist might help you gradually practice not withdrawing, maybe voicing how you feel to a trusted person or continuing to stay engaged in a situation. A If you overcompensate by being aggressive whenever you feel vulnerable, therapy will focus on helping you notice that and try more measured responses. Often gradual exposure to what you fear can help disprove the schema. For example, someone with a subjugation schema, where they always put others' needs first and ignore their own, might practice saying no or expressing a preference in small steps and learn that others don't actually hate them for it. In fact, their relationships improve, as does their ability to establish and maintain healthy boundaries. Therapists may give homework or experiments for the client to try between sessions, like ask a friend for a small favor this week or do something nice for yourself and note how it feels, depending on the schema. Over time these new behaviors create new evidence and experiences that contradict the schema's message and you consistently behave in a healthier way and see the sky doesn't fall. The schema's grip loosens. So throughout this process. The therapist is like a coach and an ally.

Kapri: 36:02

Schema therapy can be emotionally intense at times because we're dealing with long-held pain, but it's also incredibly validating. A schema therapist often will explicitly tell you that what happened to you wasn't your fault and that the feelings of the child part of you are valid, while also helping you learn to meet those needs now in healthier, adult ways. They blend compassion with encouragement for you to change the patterns that have been hurting you. The ultimate goal is to get your core emotional needs met in a healthy way now as an adult, to reparent yourself with the therapist's help, so to speak, so that you are no longer at the mercy of those schemas. As therapy progresses, people usually begin to notice their schemas getting weaker. Maybe a situation that used to activate a 10 out of 10 abandonment pain now only activates a 5 out of 10 and you recover faster. You start to question the schema when it comes up. Is it really true that I'm defective or is this just that old story again? You also develop a stronger, healthy, adult side. That's the part of you that can nurture your vulnerable side, set limits on the punitive or impulsive side and basically run your life in a balanced way In schema therapy terms. The healthy adult mode grows and the maladaptive schema modes shrink. The end result is that you feel more secure, empowered and emotionally fulfilled. You're not completely at the whim of those old patterns. You can catch them and respond differently.

Kapri: 37:40

It's worth noting that schema therapy is often a longer-term therapy, especially for complex or deeply rooted issues. It's frequently used for conditions like borderline personality disorder, chronic depression and complex trauma, and has been quite successful in those realms. But it's also applicable to anyone who feels stuck in recurring emotional or relational patterns, which, honestly, is most of us to some degree. The combination of insight, emotion-focused healing and behavior change makes it a powerful approach to really transform those early schemas. We've covered a lot of ground today, from what schemas are and how they mess with our lives to the innovative ways schema therapy tries to address them. So let's wrap up with a quick recap and some final thoughts. So, to sum up today's exploration, schema therapy is an integrative, depth-focused therapy that helps people identify and change the core schemas, which are the deep patterns that often start in childhood and continue to affect their adult life.

Kapri: 38:48

We learned that early maladaptive schemas are like entrenched beliefs or emotional themes such as I'll be abandoned, I'm not good enough or I can't trust anyone, which arise when our core emotional needs for safety, love, acceptance, autonomy, etc. Aren't met. When we're young, these schemas can powerfully shape our feelings, behaviors and relationships, leading to cycles of pain and self-sabotage. People cope with schemas in a few common ways by surrendering to them. So this is giving in to the pattern or avoiding them, blocking out activators or overcompensating, fighting the schema by going to the opposite extreme. Unfortunately, those coping styles can keep us stuck and make the schemas even more persistent. We also talked about why these schemas stick around. They're built on years of experiences, reinforced by our behaviors and perceptions and tied to big emotions, so they don't just vanish on their own. That's why schema therapy methods come in Through a strong healing relationship with the therapist, limited reparenting, for example, experiential exercises like imagery that heal old wounds, cognitive techniques to rethink and reframe the old beliefs, and practicing new behaviors. Schema therapy works to meet those unmet needs and ultimately challenge the life patterns that have been causing us problems. It's about growing that healthy part of you that can nurture the hurt child inside and make choices that lead to a more fulfilling life, rather than being driven by the pain of the past.

Kapri: 40:33

I hope this discussion has been enlightening and maybe sparked some personal reflection. You might be thinking about your own life now. Are there any patterns that ring a bell? Perhaps certain activators that send you into a tailspin, or a type of scenario you always find yourself in? It can be a useful exercise to just notice these and wonder could this be a schema at work? For example, the next time you feel a really strong emotional reaction that seems out of proportion, you might step back and think is this reaction coming from a younger place in me? What's the story I'm telling myself right now that awareness alone is a great first step.

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Of course, knowing about schemas is just the beginning. Changing them usually takes time and often some help. If you identified with anything we talked about today, you might consider learning more on schema therapy or even reaching out to mental health professionals who know this approach. You can find resources in the show notes. So the takeaway message is hopeful. No matter how long you've been stuck in a negative pattern, change is possible. The early chapters of your life don't have to define the rest of your story. Schema therapy, in essence, is about giving yourself a chance to rewrite those old scripts, to provide that little child inside you what they needed and never got, and to watch how that transforms your present. It's hard work, but many find it profoundly rewarding.

Kapri: 42:06

Thank you for joining me in this deep dive into schema therapy. It's a complex topic, but we broke it down today. Hopefully you found it engaging and learned something new about yourself or others, if nothing else, next time you catch yourself in one of those why am I like this moments? You might remember this talk and consider that a schema could be in play and that there are ways to heal it. Feel free to share this episode with anyone who might find it helpful and, as always, I encourage you to stay curious and compassionate toward yourself. We all have our schemas and patterns, but with understanding and the right support, we can change them. Until next time, take care of yourself and try to meet those core emotional needs, because you deserve it. Thanks for listening.